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TOPIC: Need help diagnosing!!!

Need help diagnosing!!! 8 months 3 weeks ago #69632

  • darkhorse419
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Have had these Platy's for almost 2 months, and ever since day 2 of them being in the tank, i have been noticing everyone flashing from time to time. So I thought they were Flukes, so treated with Prazi Pro. Flashing never stopped, got easier, but never stopped - so I continued treating. Went to LFS and was talking with them, and they recommended Paraguard - so starting dosing that on Monday. As I was observing the tank today, I noticed that one of my Platy's has something all over him - still trying to figure out how I didn't notice it (Only thing I can think of is the Platy's are my wives, I have my Angels and Cichlids I was paying more attention to)!!! So I grabbed my handy crappy camera phone and took a pic. Please look this over, and let me know your thoughts?? I have fancy plecos and nerite snails in with them as well, so I need to be careful on meds... Looking at him, I am thinking an extreme case of ick or velvet, but let me know your thoughts?? Also, I think they might have some bloat going on, hopefully not dropsy starting (Not pineconed) - but don't think they're pregnant because it has been quite a while. I have read where Platy's get bloated from eating too much off the top of tank, which mine do - is this possible too?? I have ran these guys through everything, and cannot shake what is making them flash - and now this!!!

Parameters:
PH = 7.0-7.2 (Hard to tell)
Ammonia = 0ppm
Nitrite = 0ppm
Nitrate = 10ppm (Planted tank)

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Need help diagnosing!!! 8 months 3 weeks ago #69641

  • Tarheel96
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That's ick ... no doubt about it. Ick is very easily treated with salt + high temperature. Paraguard will treat it but it takes daily treatments for weeks depending on temperature. Ick is a parasite which has different life stages in its life cycle. In the final life stage it is encysted and near impossible to kill. Following this life stage it releases into 100's of free swimming ick and the life cycle begins again. It is at this stage when you want to kill them and salt + high temperature kills them easily. Higher temperature is also important because it speeds up their life cycle so treatment doesn't need to be continued for months.

Day 1: Increase temperature to 84-86ºF and make sure there is good surface agitation from a filter. Add 1 tablespoon salt (sodium chloride) per 5 gallons of water.
Day 2: Leave temperature on 84-86ºF. Add another 1 tablespoon salt per 5 gallons of water.
Day 3: Leave the temperature on 84-86ºF and the salt at 2 tablespoons per 5 gallons of water.

Wait a full 10 days after the last white spot was visible on a fish. Then gradually decrease the temperature back to normal (78º) and reduce the salt level through 50% water changes.

I prefer API Aquarium Salt but you can use rock salt, canning salt, kosher salt ... just Sodium chloride. Be careful not to spread ick to another tank by a drop of water.
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Need help diagnosing!!! 8 months 3 weeks ago #69642

  • blackcougar
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definitely ick.

I agree with the treatment Tarheel has suggested and be careful when going between tanks. It won't take much to spread ick between tanks. use different nets and treat the sick tank last when doing water changes.
65 gallon
2 yellow tail aceis
1 Blue neon peacock
6 cobue peacock fry
3 female cobue peacocks
2 Synodontis lucipinnis

5.5 Gallon
red finned, blue and white marbled Delta tail betta
1 mystery snail

30 gallon
20 cobue peacock fry

The psych meter has gone from sane to insane.
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Need help diagnosing!!! 8 months 3 weeks ago #69645

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Be careful with changing temps in this range. Plays are hardy fishes in taking colder temps like most central american livebearers but bombig them into high tropical temps can kill them.

There is also a method that don't need that kind of treatment if it's not possible. It's the fresh water method where you basicly remove the fish any 12 hours into a new clean tank. For bigger fish of course hard to handle but for little guys easy to arcive with 2 plastic Containers or buckets.

Right now I thick a tank treatment is allreally the better alternative, if classic with salt or with medication is your choise but if classic move the temps slowly up and down. Max 3 to 4 degrees per day up and 2 if you lower it.

Also an advice of an fellow livebearer fan. Don't buy your wished stock. If possible always start with a small group like with 2/4 or 1/3. The offspring that is born in your tank is often way more stabile.
We need to stop talking about the people as if they were the crown of creation.
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Need help diagnosing!!! 8 months 3 weeks ago #69649

  • beretta96
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I've treated ich twice. Both times I used the method outlined by Tarheel (final temp 86*)....I'm confident it will work for your tank as well.

Another thing to take into consideration when treating ich is water changes....specifically the equipment used to perform the water changes.

If you serve multiple tanks with the same water change equipment, I'd not perform any water changes on the tank with ich to ensure no ich spores get transferred from one tank to another via the shared water change equipment. If you have properly stocked your tank, the increased nitrates and mineral depletion shouldn't have a material impact on your fish. I bought a manual siphon for this exact purpose when I realized a fish I brought home had a light case of ich.

If your nitrates get in the 60-80ppm range, I'd do a water change but figure out some way not to share equipment....scooping water out with a bucket, buy a cheap manual siphon etc...

I definitely would defer to more experienced fishkeeers with respect to when to conduct a water change; my main point is to be careful to not spread the ich from one tank to another through shared water change equipment.
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Need help diagnosing!!! 8 months 3 weeks ago #69650

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beretta96 wrote:
I've treated ich twice. Both times I used the method outlined by Tarheel (final temp 86*)....I'm confident it will work for your tank as well.

Another thing to take into consideration when treating ich is water changes....specifically the equipment used to perform the water changes.

If you serve multiple tanks with the same water change equipment, I'd not perform any water changes on the tank with ich to ensure no ich spores get transferred from one tank to another via the shared water change equipment. If you have properly stocked your tank, the increased nitrates and mineral depletion shouldn't have a material impact on your fish. I bought a manual siphon for this exact purpose when I realized a fish I brought home had a light case of ich.

If your nitrates get in the 60-80ppm range, I'd do a water change but figure out some way not to share equipment....scooping water out with a bucket, buy a cheap manual siphon etc...

I definitely would defer to more experienced fishkeeers with respect to when to conduct a water change; my main point is to be careful to not spread the ich from one tank to another through shared water change equipment.


Good point, its the small things that can have an huge impact and even most of us with more exp forget or just don't think about out of routine like cleaning nets or water containers, if possible use an separate hoses for each tank and so on.

The water change method is just fine for small fish. For Platys to 10 to 20 Gallon rubber tubes or containers should be enough where you rehome them gently any 12 hours. Than empty the old one give him an fast swipe and refill.
After a couple of days the fishes should get be better.

This is for example the prefered method for Snakeheads that don't like tropical temps and salt. Here it's also no big deal to keep an bigger fish in the 8 to 12" region for the time of treatment in an small tank in the 15 to 25 G region only half filled.
We need to stop talking about the people as if they were the crown of creation.
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Need help diagnosing!!! 8 months 3 weeks ago #69653

  • AquaNut
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I have used the same treatment twice as well and never lost one fish. Although i have always caught it early.I have seen the salt treatment fail as well with some friends of mine unfortunately.
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Need help diagnosing!!! 8 months 2 weeks ago #69756

  • darkhorse419
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Yesterday ended Day 3 of salt treatment - this morning the Platy still looks exactly the same, but since raising temp he has been swimming into the filter current almost the whole day - can't believe he's not exhausted!!! I really don't think it's ick or velvet, but unsure at this point how to treat further. I have given these poor fish every advice I have been given, as well as my own experience of "try first's before panicking". No other fish have anything on their bodies, fins, etc. Other than an occasional flashing episode and twitching from time to time (But once again, cichlids coming into maturity - is some of this behavior cichlid norm?), everyone eats fine... I am lost here, and not sure what else to do rather than just wait it out and see if anyone shows more symptoms. But this platy? He's eating still, so can't say he's too sick!!!

Edit: Electric Blue Acara does crash in his corner a bit, with his fins clamped to side, dorsal down and just laying there - but later on he will be fine out swimming all over. Just trying to throw as much info out there as I can, maybe it will jog someone's memory of an instance they had??
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Need help diagnosing!!! 8 months 2 weeks ago #69757

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I am going to do a 50% water change this afternoon as well, since I do not like the salt level being as high as it is!!

Unless someone can give me a good reason why 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons wasn't enough, thus the reason for doubling??
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Need help diagnosing!!! 8 months 2 weeks ago #69758

  • Tarheel96
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That's actually not very much salt. They use the same amount at petcos to prevent ick outbreaks. 3 tablespoons per 5 gallons is safe for freshwater fish with scales. That's still less than 1/10th the salinity of seawater.

There are different strains of Ick and some fish are more susceptible to it than others. I've seen the same thing in planted tanks where one fish has ick worse than others. It takes longer for the parasites to fall off. Many of the ones you see now were likely under the scales and too small to see a few days ago. They'll start to fall off in a few more days with salt + high temp.

Here's a video of a betta with ick in terrible shape. I used salt + heat and he recovered. I went to 90º because he it was so bad. I do NOT recommend 90º.


After 11 days he had lost some scales on his head but the ick was gone and he felt much better.
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