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TOPIC: Humic Subtances in Freshwater Aquariums

Humic Subtances in Freshwater Aquariums 4 years 4 months ago #21144

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shinneh wrote:
Also...to answer your question, wouldn't it be a bad idea to add green leaves because they they are not yet decomposed? Humus in soil is the final product of organic matter that has broken down to the point of a being a stable substance that does not undergo further decomposition. This process takes hundreds of years. A fresh green leaf will not add humic matter to your tank, it will only add more bacteria that feast on organic matter.

Anyways, that is my guess. Am I close?

Not just bacteria, but also nitrogen increasing the bio load.
"My Country is the World, and my Religion is to do good." -Thomas Paine
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Humic Subtances in Freshwater Aquariums 4 years 4 months ago #21145

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You are very close to the full answer. You nailed the complicated part of the equation. The missing part involves nitrogen.

During a seasonal change when a tree drops it's leaves, all of the "stuff" inside the leaf is pulled back into the tree. The tree has worked hard collecting all of that nitrogen. It cannot afford to loose it when the leaf drops, so it is pulled back into the tree before the leaf dies and is dropped.

A green leaf still contains all of that nitrogen and when it starts to break down in an aquarium, or it is dried and then used in an aquarium, the nitrogen it contains will be released into the nitrogen cycle. End result, more nitrate for you to deal with.

I'm still working on testing the impacts of the tank tea. I want to ensure safety before I recommend anything.
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Humic Subtances in Freshwater Aquariums 4 years 4 months ago #21146

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REALLY good info Kmuda....please keep it coming..... :)
210g,1-lutino tiger O, 1- red long fin lutino O, 1 red O,7 SD
120g,3 Discus various dither fish
60g reef,1 sand sifting gobie,1black&white wrasse, various cleanup crew and lots of corals:)
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Humic Subtances in Freshwater Aquariums 4 years 4 months ago #21147

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I do not think pulled back the right term, plants do not have return osmosis. cooler weather thickens the sap. and capillaries shut down, or collapse in the stem being fed to the leaf. frost finishes the job. when it warms up the sap flows better and osmosis picks up, more light at same time photo synthases picks up and stems start budding.
The name Oscar is a Norse baby name. In Norse the meaning of the name Oscar is: Divine spear.
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Humic Subtances in Freshwater Aquariums 4 years 4 months ago #21148

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either way in fall the leaf ability to create sugar drops do less sun light, so less nitrogen production and the same time the cold weather thickens the sap.. not sure i am explaining myself here. and me a grounds manager. either way see the point. :)
The name Oscar is a Norse baby name. In Norse the meaning of the name Oscar is: Divine spear.
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Humic Subtances in Freshwater Aquariums 4 years 4 months ago #21158

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I've always said my favorite part of this hobby is its a never ended opportunity (excuse) to learn. Who'da thunk it. The aquarium hobby leading into trying to understand the chemical and physical activities associated with a tree loosing it's leaves. :lol:

Thanks popss.... now I have to go pin this one down or I will not sleep tonight. :lol:
120g - Tiger Oscar, Parrot Cichlid, SDs | 55g - 24 Year Old Kissing Gourami
55g - Angelfish/Bolivan Rams | 40g GBRs - 20g Apistos
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4 Cats, 2 Shelties, 1 Rat Terrier, 1 wife, 1 old lady, 1 sub-adult, 1 rug rat.
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Humic Subtances in Freshwater Aquariums 4 years 4 months ago #21160

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That was quick.... The tree "re-absorbs" the valuable chemicals and elements in the leaves. Trees do this proactively before the leaves can be damaged by cold (in temperate regions) or by the dry season in warm/tropical climates.
120g - Tiger Oscar, Parrot Cichlid, SDs | 55g - 24 Year Old Kissing Gourami
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65g Blackwater Planted Discus Tank
4 Cats, 2 Shelties, 1 Rat Terrier, 1 wife, 1 old lady, 1 sub-adult, 1 rug rat.
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Humic Subtances in Freshwater Aquariums 4 years 4 months ago #21171

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gleamed from here i take it?

Leaves are expensive organs for a tree to build and maintain. During winter (in cold climates) or the dry season (in warmer climates) it becomes difficult for the tree to maintain its water balance as there is less free water available in the soil. It is thus difficult for the tree to keep its leaves turgid and the cells of the tissues in the leaves would become damaged by the cold in temperate areas, or the heat in warmer areas. Instead of remaining actively growing during this time of the year the tree enters a dormant period.
Trees are adapted to the climate of the area where they grow. They do not wait for their leaves to be damaged by the harsh conditions of the winter or dry season before losing them. They prepare in advance for the onset of the unfavourable season by getting ready to lose their leaves. The enzymes which control the functioning chemical pathways in the leaves e.g. photosynthesis, contain nutrients which are valuable to the tree because they are in short supply in the soil from where they are absorbed. Before the tree abscises or separates off its leaves, it breaks down many of the organic compounds and reabsorbs the valuable nutrients from its leaves. It will reuse these in the next growing season. Nutrients which are reabsorbed from leaves include nitrogen (N) and phosphorus (P).
The name Oscar is a Norse baby name. In Norse the meaning of the name Oscar is: Divine spear.
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Humic Subtances in Freshwater Aquariums 4 years 4 months ago #21183

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More info.....

This study identifies that tannins derived from Indian Almond Catappa Leaves is "10-fold" more effective against Staphylococcus aureus than is oxycillin.

jac.oxfordjournals.org/content/48/4/487.full

This study demonstrates that tannins are effective agains Helicobacter pylori (an intestinal bacteria). Identifies the tannins as "highly effective and safe".

www.plantasmedicinales.org/archivos/plan...icobacter_pylori.pdf

Demonstrates the Anti-Parasitic qualities of tannins

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0031942205000129

Tannins are even being used against HIV and Herpes
www.chinaphar.com/1671-4083/25/213.pdf?o...n=publication_detail
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12206882

If nothing else, all of this demonstrates the effects of Tannins (Humic Substances) are much more than anecdotal.
120g - Tiger Oscar, Parrot Cichlid, SDs | 55g - 24 Year Old Kissing Gourami
55g - Angelfish/Bolivan Rams | 40g GBRs - 20g Apistos
65g Blackwater Planted Discus Tank
4 Cats, 2 Shelties, 1 Rat Terrier, 1 wife, 1 old lady, 1 sub-adult, 1 rug rat.
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Humic Subtances in Freshwater Aquariums 4 years 4 months ago #21184

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www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1577/1548....CO%3B2#.U3OF54FdWR4
Tannic acid, propyl gallate, methyl gallate, and gallic acid were tested for their inhibitory effects on selected aquatic microorganisms by the well assay technique. Tannic acid, propyl gallate, and methyl gallate in deionized water inhibited the growth of Aeromonas hydrophila, A. sobria, Edwardsiella iclaluri, E. tarda, Pseudomonas fluorescens, and Escherichia coli, but gallic acid did not. When 500-μg/mL concentrations of these four compounds were tested in sterilized fish pond water at pH 7.0 and with a low bacterial inoculum of 103–104 colony-forming units (CFU) per milliliter, they inhibited the growth of P. fluorescens and (except for tannic acid) E. coli. Pseudomonas fluorescens inoculated at 103–104 CFU/mL in pond water was inhibited by methyl gallate, propyl gallate, and tannic acid concentrations as low as 50 μg/mL, but a gallic acid contration of 100 μg/mL was required for inhibition. Escherichia coli was inhibited by methyl gallate and propyl gallate at 250 μg/mL and by gallic acid at 500 μg/mL, but it was not inhibited by tannic acid at concentrations up to 500 μg/mL in water of pH 7.0. Tannic acid (500 μg/mL) did inhibit E. coli growth at pH 4.5.

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1383571804001652
The influence of these tannins on the rate of hemolysis in stressed trout erythrocytes was investigated and the results indicate that tannic acid accelerates the hemolytic event while gallic and ellagic acid have no significant effect.

The possible protective action of these compounds against oxidative DNA damage was assessed using the comet assay, a rapid and sensitive single-cell gel electrophoresis technique, used to detect primary DNA damage in individual cells. The results here reported show that tannins under study are capable at low concentrations of protecting DNA breakag
120g - Tiger Oscar, Parrot Cichlid, SDs | 55g - 24 Year Old Kissing Gourami
55g - Angelfish/Bolivan Rams | 40g GBRs - 20g Apistos
65g Blackwater Planted Discus Tank
4 Cats, 2 Shelties, 1 Rat Terrier, 1 wife, 1 old lady, 1 sub-adult, 1 rug rat.
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